In the US if you come in saying you are visiting friends, you’ll get a ton of questions. That’s a red flag for immigration because it could mean that you’ll overstay your visa. So someone with a few sits planned as a travel itinerary will stand out like a sore thumb if they say “staying with friends.” Even if you were simply going to use someone’s guest house, this would appear so odd to someone at immigration that it would set off suspicions and more questions.
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That sounds horrible—I can’t possibly imagine how she must feel. Yes, some people will indeed believe the ‘produced letter’ from THS would protect them, but I don’t see how. It doesn’t seem like it was written by a legal professional.
It’s too informal for something meant for U.S. immigration authorities.
Phrases like ‘we do not feel…’—legal professionals don’t ‘feel’; they state facts.
Similarly, the phrase ‘we discussed how U.S. immigration regulations…’ a casual conversation is not a formal legal argument.
Additionally, it doesn’t cite any U.S. immigration laws or regulations, which is alarming. There’s also no mention of the usual length of housesits, which apparently is ‘brief periods of 1-2 weeks’ as stated in the UK version. ( probably only makes things worse for anyone traveling under longer agreements).
A proper legal opinion would not intentionally leave out or differ between those specifics, especially since the U.S. has much stricter visitor immigration laws than the UK.
Furthermore, if any immigration border patrol officer actually visited the website and reviewed the terms of agreement, they would encounter another significant error in the letter—there are indeed statements that involves potential money exchanges between the parties - which already violates consumer protection laws and marketing regulations in multiple countries.
At best, this letter comes across as a subjective opinion - possibly written by an intern. It’s definitely not something that provides protection.
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Hello everyone,
I’ve had to moderate this discussion again, due to a specific person being discussed. As I mentioned in my previous reply:
I’ve carried out some moderation to make sure that this discussion is within our Community Guidelines, as we shouldn’t be focusing on any individuals - our terms and conditions state that any discussions around immigration should be generalised discussions that are housesitting-specific regarding matters such as immigration or visa.
It’s fine to discuss the article’s themes in a more general sense, we don’t want to stop you from expressing your opinion (positive or negative), but we do need to keep the conversation within the guidelines.
Thank you!
Jenny
Agree that the letter has all the shortcoming you pointed out. But because THS still continues to offer the letter and advise sitters to use the letter many will. There is an argument to be made for not offering the letter in the first place to avoid the problem of using it and then being refused entry.
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Yeah, IMO they’re creating their own liability for no reason. It’s not like they’re frequently used - but when they are, it’s a problem. Just nuke the letters and save everyone the hassle. IMO the THS legal counsel is dropping the ball here.
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Completely agree - it does more harm than good. Would be wiser to refrain from offering it, rather than creating unnecessary and false liability—something that could lead to significant consequences for users.
Given how it’s written, it’s impossible to imagine that any competent legal counsel was involved at all, neither in drafting their website terms and conditions nor the immigration letter.
Since THS has access to a reputable law firm like Mishcon de Reya, with over 600 lawyers, they might want to consider actually using them.
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It actually is against many leases (and many “homeowners” are in fact “renters”) to have “usupervised” guests. These rules are now more enforced than ever in order to deal with illegal short-term rentals and Airbnbs in places like NYC where Airbnb is very restricted. So it’s not even a border issue. A “homeowner” who rents, or even a condo owner or home owner where there is an active HOA, should find out about guest restrictions before joining THS.
There are so many ifs and buts in this life. If I thought all my actions through from start to finish I would probably do nothing, sit and vegetate, grow old full of if onlys and unfulfilled wishes. It’s a personal choice to take risks and live with the consequences if things go wrong. I think I’ll just keep taking these choices/risks and hope there are hosts out there doing the same.
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100% @ElsieDownie - there are now rules in Turkey that you cannot have anyone stay in your house if they aren’t your mother, sister, father or brother (if you’re not there yourself). If you do, then you need a rental permit for a princely £400. As you can imagine that is being firmly ignored by most sensible people when it comes to house and pet sitters as no-one has even considered us (Turks on the whole don’t get the concept of pets they’re simply security). If the jandarme do turn up, you explain what you’re doing and he shakes his head in disbelief, not interested in any of it. And that’s in a country with an awful lot of rules especially for us yabancis! As the billionaire & eccentric Felix Dennis often said, “Never seek permission, you can always apologise later.” #somerulesaremadeforbreaking
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Love that quote. Will be using it frequently.
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@ElsieDownie …at the border control?
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No. In my life in general.
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@ElsieDownie Ah, sorry, thought it was related to the topic. Good for you
After thinking about the issue throughly, I decided not to petsit anymore in USA. ( I am canadian). I did my last american sit a couple of weeks ago for a repeat as we remained FB friends since the first sit, a couple of years ago.
But no more.
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I’m no lawyer, but it would seem to me this would fall into the same category as internships and most volunteer or “exchange” – that is – If there are people getting paid to do similar things, then you can’t come into the US to do it.
So no matter how THS puts it, that’s it. That’s the basic violation.
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I’m referring to the article in the Guardian newspaper where sitters have been denied entry as border force and US immigration consider free accommodation as payment.
I can’t see any statement from THS on this very important topic.
Link removed as per the Terms of Service
I doubt you’ll see a statement as there have been multiple articles about the same situation for years. There’s really nothing to address at this point that hasn’t been covered. If you sit outside of your home country/zone it’s almost certainly illegal and you should be aware of such and willing to take the risk if you take the sit.
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’ TrustedHousesitters’ letters argue that unpaid housesitting is not a form of work so can be done by tourists or visitors. But the stance appears to contradict statements by UK and US government officials. A UK Home Office spokesperson said last year that it typically considers housesitting to be work, even if unpaid, and confirmed this position to the Observer . People trying to enter the US have been told by immigration officials that petsitting and housesitting in exchange for lodging is considered employment.’
Nicolette Bostock, head of UK immigration at international law firm Withers, said that while rules varied, it was “highly likely” that many countries would consider unpaid housesitting to be work. “Even though there’s no money changing hands, it’s work,. It’s not for free – there is a transaction happening in that there is an expectation … between the housesitter and the house or pet owner, that defines what should be done, when and how, and what they get in exchange.”
She said: “The liability rests solely with the person seeking the entry … I would be wary of relying on those letters.”
These are government and specialist lawyers so I’d take their advice seriously.
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It’s not that US immigration considers this “employment”. It’s that they consider it to fit into a category that includes unpaid “work” that coud potentially be paid work done by a US citizen and/or that could provide the sitter with a way of overstaying their visa. There are lots of unpaid opportunities that aren’t “employment” or “jobs” that fit into this. Someone without “permission to work” for instance also can’t do volunteer work or take an unpaid internship.
It seems like if THS and similar companies wanted to challenge the laws they should look at stuff like hostels or even airbnbs that might require guests to do certain chores in return for their stays but still allow people to stay at those places using tourist visas.
However, if you are here as an au par for instance, you need to get a cultural exchange visa through an agency as opposed to doing this on a tourist visa for your cousin, or a family friend! There are cultural exchanges often with far more duties than petsitting, although these require a lot of paperwork, “sponserships”, time, and expense. I don’t know if there is anyway for THS as matching site to take this on for those who want to come for two weeks to petsit in NYC or even five months to travel around the US and petsit.
Also btw another thing that is NOT legal to do on a tourist visa in the US is work remotely at your nonUS job! So trying to explain how you are going to support yourself without taking a job here is kind of a Catch-22.
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The problem for me isn’t what it’s classified as by immigration. The problem is that it is not made clear to the members that this could be an issue. I for one, as a HO will not be that keen on accepting non UK residents as sitters whilst there is a potential problem. I certainly don’t want to book up a holiday, only to find at the last minute I don’t have a sitter.
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