I checked out Fing. It’s not a free app, and it doesn’t have great reviews. Nor do any of the ‘detect a camera’ items sold on the market atm. i think we will have to wait for the technology to catch up on this one.
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Absolutely right! Suddenly the sitter has to become the policeman!
[quote=“carpediem, post:32, topic:5128”]
‘‘I also feel that to much onus is being placed on the sitter to first of all ask the right questions to find if cameras are installed and then to negotiate the use of them and possibly even to carry an app which helps them find undeclared cameras! Surely this is not the right way to go with this sort of issue?
[/quote]’’
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This is good to know. I have experience on a sit where I discovered a motion sensor camera pointing to the pet’s eating area. It was placed above head level so I did not see it until a few days in. I felt extremely disappointed that they did not tell me about it. I did nothing about it. Next time I will mention it to the HO and inform membership services as well.
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I’ve used Ring before, it has a wide coverage area so don’t be surprised if it’s not just the doorway. Also, it activates when there is motion and takes a 15 second video recording which you can keep/download. Moreover, there is the option to go to live view, this is not recording but you can watch it live anytime you wish.
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Not to mention that you can listen as well as see.
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@Jaja yes you should definitely report something like that.
@travellingnomad that is a worry and i think this sort of technology really compromises a sitters right to privacy. As I have said previously and I hope @Angela_L is keeping track of comments coming in from this thread to take to the THS team, there needs to be a much stronger policy in place that cancels HOs membership where they have failed to declare cameras. Actually I personally would like to see a clear THS policy where only outside cameras are allowed for sits. I doubt this will happen though. I think the onus will remain with sitters to negotiate the use of cameras that are declared and being used internally while at the same time having to find those that are not declared; a very unsatisfactory situation!
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After reading the original post here (btw, thank you @dlwalsh2 for posting it), I used Fing (the free version) too. It was hard to figure out what was what when it came up with the list of connected devices, but it did help me figure out that something I found suspicious was actually just an extension router. It helps to be a techie, which I am not.
There were cameras at my first sit, I knew I was being watched, but at that time I was not aware of THS’s stance on this and thought it was just an uncomfortable reality I would have to deal with. I was pretty naive. That family also had gps collars for their dogs, so I knew my walks were also being monitored. At the time I knew very little about how security devices worked.
We now have Ring motion detector cameras on the perimeter of our house, plus an indoor camera that we set up when we go on vacation and the house is empty. I wouldn’t dream of having an indoor camera on if someone was home. We don’t have a Ring doorbell because these cameras do the same thing. When there is motion, the Ring chimes that are plugged into outlets at my home, chime. The Ring app also sounds a chime on my phone. I open the Ring app on my phone and I can then see a live view, and hear audio too, of someone walking a dog or riding a bike in the street in front of my house. I can see the mail or package delivery person and when anyone walks in or out of the door. I can also scroll back and see saved videos with time stamps of any earlier motion that took place in the past 60 days. As @travellingnomad says, you can also see a live view with audio any time you like. I can also initiate 2-way audio with anyone I see live at the camera with my phone. It’s pretty funny when I get a ding that my husband has walked outside while I am at a sit 250+ miles away and I start talking to him through the camera. Very Orwellian.
(Continued below… )
Anyway… I am in agreement with @carpediem. This issue should be taken more seriously than it has been. After reading this thread I feel more strongly than I did, and I will not tolerate cameras inside a home where I am staying. To me, outside cameras are perfectly ok. They still allow plenty of opportunity to monitor the activities of your pets and the sitter. You can see when the dog is walked and for how long; when, how often and for how long the sitter has been away from the house; and if the sitter lets anyone else enter the house.
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@mars thanks for your support to this and it should be taken more seriously thats for sure. Employees have protection by law in their workplace from invasion of privacy and we all know about the ‘upskirting’ issues and how that is now taken much more seriously than it used to be. I am keeping @Angela_L in the loop with comments coming in and I am confident she will take it back to the THS team for discussion. All the best
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As Airbnb and THS are similar in that guests/sitters stay in someone else’s home, I thought it could be helpful for the THS team to see Airbnb’s policy regarding security cameras @Angela_L.
Our Standards & Expectations require that all members of the Airbnb community respect each other’s privacy. More specifically, we require hosts to disclose all security cameras and other recording devices in their listings, and we prohibit any security cameras and other recording devices that are in or that observe the interior of certain private spaces (such as bedrooms and bathrooms), regardless of whether they’ve been disclosed. Intentionally concealed recording devices (such as hidden security cameras) are never permitted.
If you’re a host and you have any type of security camera and/or other recording device in or around a listing, even if it’s not turned on or hooked up, we require that you indicate its presence in the Things to know section under Health & safety. We also require you to disclose how guests will be monitored and if an active recording is taking place. If a host discloses the device after booking, Airbnb will allow the guest to cancel the reservation and receive a refund. Host cancellation penalties may apply. Find out how to disclose info about security cameras and recording devices. …
Any mechanism that can be used to capture or transmit audio, video, or still images is subject to these rules. This includes, but is not limited to, things like Wi-Fi cameras (for example, Nest Cam or Dropcam), nanny cameras, web cameras in computer monitors, baby monitors, mounted or installed surveillance systems, decibel and device monitors, and smart phones with video and/or audio recording capabilities.
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@Mary-Kay thats very useful and sets the parameters out quite clearly thanks for this
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I agree that security systems should be disclosed in the listing and certainly on the walk-through if for some reason the HO failed to include it in the listing. Just a humorous story - on a sit for 3 dogs, the wife had already left and the husband gave us the home orientation before leaving the following morning. Sometime later that day, the wife texted us that the husband ‘forgot’ to mention the security cameras. A couple of afternoons later we met friends and decided to continue to an early dinner with them. Since this was in February, it was getting dark around 6 as we were finishing our meal. Then I got another text from the wife “oh we forgot to mention the dogs get very nervous if no one is at home and there are no lights on.” Well, too late for that advice because all 3 dogs had xxxx on the kitchen floor before we got home! The moral to HOs – try writing down EVERYTHING you’re supposed to communicate with sitters so you don’t ‘forget.’
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Omg, that’s funny! … in hindsight, of course!
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Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this conversation, it is a very important discussion and we so appreciate all of your input, especially those personal experiences some of you have had with this technology.
Thank you @Mary-Kay for sharing the Airbnb policy, we do monitor the policies and procedures of businesses similar to TrustedHousesitters but contributions like this are incredibly helpful, thank you for taking the time to source.
The Product team is aware of this subject matter and will take on board all member feedback.
Thank you all again and have a great weekend.
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@Paljimmy yep sitters are NOT mind readers!! and of course you had to clean up the mess…its not rocket science HOs…if you want the sit to run smoothly and your animals and home to be looked after properly you REALLY need to give your sitter all the information needed to do do this properly! Have a nice holiday!
There’s been a lot of really interesting information come out of this thread and I’ve definitely been educated. I’m thinking it would have been a good thread to share on the Owner Questions, Advice and Chat so that they are aware of sitters’ concerns re this important issue.
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@temba yes thats a good idea
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Great suggestion @temba @carpediem - we’ve moved this into the new Owner Sitter Exchange category so that everyone can interact on this important topic 
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I noted in our welcome guide that we have motion activated lights and cameras in outdoor areas and also a camera on our doorbell. We have problems with people walking thru neighboring areas, testing car doors, stealing bikes, etc. so they are for security purposes. We have no indoor cameras, but while we were awsy, we were getting weird, constant alerts from one of the outdoor cameras and, as our sitter later told us, the camera had fallen down in a storm so he brought it inside until he could put it back up. Not knowing that but being concerned, we checked the camera and as soon as we saw it was inside, we turned it off. It isn’t our intention to spy on our sitter, just to deter possible intruders
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