Personally I feel it’s OK but not ok if you monitor it to check up on sitters comings and goings in a micromanaging manner. In other words it’s a security thing NOT a monitoring thing.
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The easiest way to determine if the owner wants the doorbell or external cameras for security rather than monitoring the sitter is to ask for access so that you can see who is at the door or outside the house. If they won’t give you access it’s not for security.
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I’m so naive about this topic - what should I be looking for? Are the cameras obvious?
I’m posting this here because it appears to be the most recent thread where the issue of cameras and other internal monitoring devices is being discussed. It’s lengthy; sorry. Maybe it will be useful for others to read, anyone else trolling the Forum in a panic over how to handle being recorded without giving permission.
I’ve sat pets and houses on and off over the last two decades, but I’m recently coming back to it after having been away for almost 10 years. Things have changed. Whoa. (Let’s not even get into the Air BnB aspect of it these days.)
One thing that has changed in the world generally is the current ubiquity of internal household monitoring devices, i.e., Alexa, a Ring doorbell, Furbo, and the gagillion other devices that have the capacity to record movement, audio, or visual activity in our homes and workspaces. This, of course, has spilled over to the sitting world. (We’re not talking here about public-safety cameras that exist in public-use spaces. These operate in a completely differently legal reality, and they have different purposes and uses. We are talking about digital monitoring devices that are deliberately placed in private spaces, where there is the long-established and legally supported presumption of privacy.)
I don’t personally own any of these devices, nor would I, so I don’t know how each of the individual devices works, but I do know that their capacities are expanding, and that they are legally recognized as a threat to personal privacy, but also that we’re stuck with their existence.
These devices are effectively controlled by the “licensed” user through an app on a smartphone, so the homeowners can control the unit even when they are not near the device, no matter where they might be. The audio and visual data that these devices collect is stored in the cloud, and can either be retained or erased, but as with all things cloud, “erased” is itself a squishy term. Erased how, from where, and by whom? It suffices to say that the information is captured, so what a person does or says when the device is operating becomes part of the digital record.
The only thing that someone without access to the controlling app can do about any of these devices is to disconnect them from their power sources, or in some cases, physically block the unit so that it cannot capture audio or video. I’m beginning to wonder, however, if some of these gizmos are now battery operated such that there is no unplugging them at all, and they continue to work as long as they are connected to wifi, which would be a whole new problem.
All of that said, I did stumble into a recent sit where multiple such devices were in use. Once it dawned on me that the units were active, I contacted TH for advice. I was basically told the same thing that I’m seeing everyone else here being told: such devices are against TH policy; it is the sitter’s right to abandon the sit (and any animals); the sitter should feel free to take it up directly with the homeowner, etc. Company line, ok, but not practical guidance mid-sit.
This was a relatively short sit, just a few days, and I decided for myself that in this case the homeowner was probably just blithely ignoring the policy, but that they had no malice of intention in having the devices running. To the best of my visual knowledge the devices existed only in the living areas, and I saw no evidence of anything in any of the spaces where the sitter was granted private use, namely the guest room and guest bathroom. There was no evidence of device intrusion there. So, I simply decided to keep my concerns to myself during the sit, skipped crossing the kitchen in my bathrobe (or less), and I was exceptionally mindful of everything I said aloud while inside the house. I got through it. Now I am at the 14-day review stage.
The homeowner has posted a review, but I have not yet posted mine, so I haven’t seen what the homeowner said (another new wrinkle in the process of sitting since I last did this, these 1-1 TH gamified, Yelp-ified reviews). I can’t imagine any circumstances under which the homeowner would say anything negative about my service on the sit. I make it a habit to leave a house cleaner than I found it, and I vacuum and usually take time to launder the guest towels and bed linens and set them aside clean and folded before I leave the house, which I did in this case. Obviously, I take fine, kind care of any pets. In other words, I am an exemplary sitter. But I don’t yet know whether anything negative has been said in this review.
I asked TH about this review conundrum when I was on the initial calls and emails about my concerns, asking TH not to take up the issue with the homeowner until after the 14-day review period. My understanding is that TH has agreed to hold off on any such discussion with the homeowner, and I did as TH requested, sending them images of the devices in use. (I had captured those images as surreptitiously as possible, so I doubt the homeowners saw my phone camera being used. Similarly, the only photos I ever take of a home where I sit are those of the pet or pets, which I share as updates with the homeowners.) So, in theory, the homeowner doesn’t know that I expressed concerns about the monitoring devices – yet.
But I still haven’t decided how to handle my review of the sit, in part because I do not know the TH process for untangling a bad review (from either side), should that occur. I haven’t been able to get an explanation or clarification from TH about how to handle the possibility of dueling negative reviews.
Meanwhile, I have two more sits scheduled in the near future, both confirmed, and both of which are now at the stage where I am communicating directly with the homeowners by text, off the TH platform. Because I was – and remain – genuinely disturbed by the whole situation with the internal monitoring devices at the last sit, I decided to broach the subject with these next two homeowner pairs directly. Honestly, my one concern with the upcoming sits – which I had shared with TH – was that even bringing up the subject with a homeowner risks my somehow sounding sinister or untrustworthy, and that the homeowner might react badly and cancel the sit. So be it. I had to do something in this case. I wanted to be certain that this communication was captured by the TH system, so I drafted the notes within the TH platform, then dropped each homeowner a quick note by text, asking them to please take a look at TH.
To their credit, both of these homeowner pairs responded well and gently to my concerns, and nobody overreacted. (Unless, of course I can be accused of overreacting to the devices in the first place. But I don’t think so.) One homeowner pair acknowledged that they have such devices in their home, but that they routinely disconnect them when they have a sitter. The other homeowner pair took the opportunity to express their own concerns about the erosion of personal privacy in our lives today. Needless to say, these homeowners won’t have any cameras or recording devices in their house, not that I’ll have to worry about.
TH keeps trying to put forth that this is an uncommon problem or concern among sitters. I suggested that they needed to read their own forum. This is very much NOT an uncommon problem, and it is going to continue to BE a problem as long as people choose to have these devices in their homes, which is, like, forever. It is wholly unfair for the responsibility of negotiating the disconnection or removal of these devices to fall on the sitter. I suspect that it might even be questionably legal for that responsibility to be the sitter’s. I’m not sure TH cares either way.
TH needs to send out a communication to all users, both homeowners and sitters, (re)advising of the policy and the expectation of 100% compliance. They simply have to take this off the backs of the sittters, and TH is the only ones who can. It is technically possible for such communication to require that the recipients acknowledge receipt, just like we have to confirm emails for various things, and TH should do exactly that so that they get secondary confirmation from every sitter and every homeowner so that THEY know that everyone knows this is inappropriate and an invasion of personal privacy.
Will that solve the problem of these pernicious little digital beasties? No, but it will be a leveling device so that if a sitter has to ask a question of a homeowner, unplug a device, or take it up a second time with a homeowner, that sitter is covered and cannot be faulted for his or her concern.
For me, I think that I will skip housesitting from now on. It has served a fine and useful purpose for me more than once in my life, but as with so many things culturally, politically, economically, etc., I feel as if the good faith has disappeared from the transaction. And let’s face it, housesitting has always been part of the trust economy. I expect that this is a thing of the past.
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Welcome back to pet sitting @CatherineR but it sounds like you might not be doing it for much longer!
The blind review system, including being able to star rate hosts in five categories, was something sitters, in particular, had been requesting for a long time, with the hope that members would review honestly without fear of retaliation.
This is your opportunity to warn fellow sitters but also to educate your hosts that there is a policy in regard to indoor cameras and recording devices. You can just state it upfront that these cameras were not disclosed, thereby affecting a sitter’s privacy. I would deduct a star for Accuracy of Listing and even Communication as it covers both areas. Were your hosts new to THS or had they had other sitters? If the latter, was there any indication of the indoor cameras in their reviews?
Each of you will have the opportunity to respond once to the review given. Should your hosts take umbrage (they shouldn’t as they are in the wrong) at your mentioning the cameras, it will appear on their profile and not yours.
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I agree with Temba’s advice. Personally, anything I have an issue with, I would discuss with the host. I don’t think it’s fair to leave a negative point if they weren’t given an opportunity to address it. Imagine if I did this to one of my employees on their annual review. They would be livid and rightfully so because it’s unfair to someone not to give them an opportunity to fix an issue they are unaware of.
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I’m currently on a sit (Australia) and there was no mention of indoor cameras in the Welcom Guide. I’ve contacted THS, but there is one.
Also, one of the dogs is very agressive. I spent my first 30 mins of the sit hiding in the pantry with the door closed i felt so uncomfortable!! Anyway. I finally had to come out when the dog started pulling everything out of my backpack. I threw some bread outside to get them out of the house and shut the door while I composed myself and collected the stuff from my pack.
I thought it might have been just seeing someone they didn’t know in the house. I kept an eye on the temperature, and they were under shade.
About an hour later I got a nessage from the wife saying to make sure they had access to water all day.
It twigged then that they might have a camera and saw they were outside. About an hour later the messaged again and said they’d seen on the ‘doggy cam” that they were outside. She said sorry she hadn’t told me about the cameras, but they were just at the back door for the dogs. I had a look and couldn’t see any outside . Then I saw it in the living room, and it’s one of those thst swivels and follows you when you walk past. CREEPY!
It’s only a 4 day stay to fill a gap between two longer ones, but I am currently barracaded in the bedroom a) because of the dogs b) because of the internal camera. On day 2 of 4, not sure if I can manage the next 2 days.
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@Jacharr sorry to hear of your situation.
Aggressive pets and internal cameras are not permitted on THS - have you asked the hosts to disable the camera ?
You can leave the sit after giving the hosts at least 24 notice that you will be doing that . Also inform THS of what you are doing and why … take photos of the internal camera and (if safe to do so ) a video of the dog’s aggressive behaviour. This is your “evidence “ if you decide to leave or raise a member dispute .
If you are in danger of any kind of injury from the dog you can of course leave sooner as your safety is priority.
What is your back up plan if you decide to leave the sit ?
There is a 24/7 Urgent Support Phone Line that you can call for advice . THS won’t sort out alternative accommodation for you so what you decide to do depends on your back up plan
Some suggestions for a back up plan - hotel , friends , camping , will the next sit be open to you arriving a day early ( for example if this is a repeat sit and you have a good rapport with the hosts ) ? )
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I wouldn’t be able to take a video of him, I’d be too busy shielding myself. I was thinking of leaving in the morning (I‘m about to try to get them into their room to sleep, which will be the next potential risk factor). In the morning they’ll rush straight to their food and I can duck out then. I have to unlock a baby gate to get through, so I’d have to do that while they’re eating, so they didn’t chase after me and try to get through the gate. But even shielding myself with my bag today when I was feeling them, I felt his teeth brush against my leg. I feel quite panicked. I’ll just go to a hotel. This sit had reg flags all over it, which I ignored, thinking I could cope with anything for a mere 4 days, but it’s starting to feel too risky.
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To cover yourself with THS and to be able to prove that you did not abandon the pets ( if you are later accused of that by the host ).
I recommend that you inform both the host and THS in writing asap that you are leaving . If safe to do so give the host 24 hours notice to make alternate arrangements and explain why you are leaving ( aggressive pets ).
Once you’re safe, you may want to consider raising a Member Dispute with THS, which can help inform and protect future sitters.
The 24/7 Urgent Support Phone number is on your dashboard.
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Hi @Jacharr
I’m so sorry to hear about this.
I highly recommend following the advice given by @Silversitters - please keep us updated on how things are going.
Jenny
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I understand that the nice thing is to discuss matters with hosts.
However, what comes to indoor cameras, there is nothing to discuss. They have either failed to read the rules, or to follow it. While I would probably dock only one star (4 stars does the job of alerting future sitters tot read my feedback), but write about the cameras in my review, no matter what the host says. Because I dont want to give them the change of being every time “oh we did not know, sorry”, because there is no paper trail of previous incidents.
In general I dont like to discuss issues with hosts. It can lead to a review that assumes I will talk bad of them and they retaliate. Reviews are the currency of THS, so it is understandable that sitters and hosts are very protective of them.
And what can the discussion even lead to? Ok if I contact the host on day one “hey your place is not up to my cleaning standards”, and they send a cleaner. Host writes to the sitter “get back here and vacuum properly or I dock stars”? Issues that happen during sit but can not really be resolved during the sit are such that they better go to the review straight.
That being said, just recently I waited until the host had reviewed me, then contacted them about an issue. They had moved a year prior, and had not updated their profile properly, so I was disappointed by some of their amenities (no streaming services, very limited kitchen). So I wrote about that, letting them know that I would have preferred to know beforehand. They apoligized and said that they will update it asap. I did not wait and check (should have, but this is not my job), and instead immediately gave them the review. I did not dock points on accuracy of listing, even when that would have been correct, because I dont see how that would be helpful. Also I wanted to post my review immediately so that the host dont need to stress about what I will say. But still, I contacted them only after they left my review.
THS does not make it easy to communicate candidly.
I did tell the owner about the internal camera and how it was against THS policy. They told me if it made me uncomfortable, to unplug it, which I did.
I also told her that I felt quite threatened by one of the dogs, abd how I had spent all of my time in the bedroom or outside the house because of it, and I felt I needed to shield myself while feeding, putting to bed etc.
They didn’t evenbreply, let alone iffer a solution!
I reported the incident, and was told that although THS didn’t want sitters to feel uncomfortable, the welfare of the pet was a priority. Tk give 24 hrs notuce etc. I onlg had 2 days left.
I finished up staying the whole 4 days but in a perpetual state of hypervigilence, and aftering feeding etc, racing heart & shortness of breath. I was really rattled by this dog.
I left this morning, and simply bolted out of the door while they were eating.
I am an experienced sitter ( although this is my first time one with THS) and have only had one dog like this before, which was an outside dog, so at last I could relax inside the house. .These were inside dogs.
I’m not sure whether to take it further. I have the next 5 months of back to back sits (through another site), so probably don’t need to go through THS again.
I can well imagine the relief you must feel now this sit is over @Jacharr. You may/may not do more sits through THS but please leave a factual, unemotional review of this sit to alert future sitters of the issues you have endured. I’m thinking you also need to be prepared for receiving a negative review from these owners. This is another reason for you to tell your side of the sit.
Wishing you well with all your future sits.
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