On a side note with external cameras, hiring a holiday place for example, criminals will know which places have tourists and also establish if the car is not on the drive, then a high chance the place is empty. This is where the security cameras come in.
No harm in having them on HO properties but the OP is correct, they should always be mentioned in the listing.
What happened to the days of having nosy neighbors? Before external cameras, nosy neighbors came in handy of letting their neighbors know if someone suspicious was lurking about. I remember as a teen someone had broken in our house while my mom was at work and my brother and I were in school. It was the nosy neighbor who lived across the street that told my mom who the culprit was. And because of the nosy neighbor, the guy was caught and my mom recovered items that were stolen.
Going on sits where the HO has external cameras, sitters do not know the HO’s intent. Is it to keep up with the comings and goings of a sitter? Is it to deter crime?
I have no problem with the Ring doorbell, but if an external camera is pointed towards say a swimming pool, I would be uncomfortable—as I would feel a lack of privacy.
This is a good point. As I read it, I remembered back years ago, when my sister’s house was broken into and her next door neighbor saw something and called the police. (The guy was fast, and not caught.) I think part of the reason for the popularity of exterior cameras is that I think especially in suburban type communities and other single family home situations, we’ve all become more isolated, and busier – with parents working, and kids going to so many activities. Unless you live next door to a stay-at-home retiree who spends all their time sitting on the porch and watching the world, you aren’t going to have a reliable neighbor system.
They’re alive and well in Thailand I’ve often said that nosy neighbors are the best security system we could have. Them and a dog who let’s us know, if someone unknown is at the gate.
But I do have to say, the nosy neighbors here might sometimes be more interested in a (foreigner) sitter’s comings and goings than an owner with an outdoor camera
True. This nosy neighbor, Ms. Dolly—as the kids called her, ((because it was respectful to address your elders as such) was retired and sat on her porch watching the comings and goings of the neighborhood.
She certainly was the eyes and ears of where I lived.
Thanks to Ms. Dolly, the guy who had taken my mom’s treasured record player was caught and my mom was forever thankful to Ms. Dolly.
Creepy, outdoor cameras on the front door or for security fine but certainly not observing the housesitter
We were once on a sit and found cctv cameras in the laundry/maids quarters and on the back patio. We didn’t say anything because we were otherwise enjoying the sit, but we redirected the cameras so they were both looking at a blank wall for the duration of our stay.
I think the reason for sitters not needing to state it up front is for that exact imbalance right there- the ability of HO’s to send unsolicited messages to sitters inviting them to a sit just based on browsing profiles/availability when a sitter is unable to do the same when browsing listings. As a sitter, there is no option to just browse sits that interest you and send a message to ask questions before applying. Or even in the case if they haven’t posted dates yet but the profile is up and complete, to message and have a chat about an interest in a future sit to see if dates might match travel etc.
There are several things on THS that put the HO in a better position than the sitter, so I think disclosing any discomfort with the cameras up front puts sitters also in yet another one down position when all the HO has to do is be transparent and then it will attract the right sitter. I genuinely think that most sitters (including myself) are not thrilled about cameras outside but are used to them. It’s more so about knowing the context in which they are used, what type of camera, and where they are facing that will determine if the sit is agreeable. I don’t think anyone likes being watched constantly even if it’s the norm in some cultures. I genuinely think HO’s who choose not to disclose do so because they know this and are afraid it will scare off sitters, especially if they have less “desirable” sits- ie in places more remote or with multiple pets and more responsibilities.
I honestly think this has nothing to do with imbalance. It’s just something practical and completely logical, since it is the owners who publish their listings and sitters choose whether they apply or not. In some cases, they may need some clarification but a clear, detailed listing saves a lot of time and effort to both owners and prospective sitters.
Sitters don’t publish their availability for a specific place at a specific time, just have a profile. Most owners won’t bother to look at the sitters profile unless they have an application and even then, some are more interested in reviews and the video chat than reading a profile. So there’s no need for sitters to specify certain things in their profiles but if they feel very strongly about something, it might help to add it in their profile.
I can see it from an HO’s POV if you’ve never seen the sitter side of things and think that sitters have more choice/flexibility in some of the aspects in managing their profiles on THS than they actually do. Either way, I agree that having a clear listing is practical for everyone considering it saves people time in the long run and it is the HO who is trying to secure a sitter so a detailed and upfront listing can attract the right fit.
It’s funny you mention that sitters don’t publish their availability for a specific place and a specific time (overboard to include the place I think) because THS doesn’t actually allow sitters to edit their own availability to indicate when they are unavailable off of the site. As if THS is their life and if they don’t have a booked sit, they must be available. So, it’s not a choice necessarily that sitters are making in a matter of disclosure with their availability.
Another imbalance in my opinion between the flexibility of what HO’s are allowed to do and sitters are not. The sitter calendar gets auto populated based on what sits are booked through the THS site. This is by design, it makes it appear that more sitters are available for HO’s when they browse the profiles even though that may not be the case. If HO’s weren’t allowed to send unsolicited messages to sitters (which I get at least three a week inviting me to sits), then they would be forced to wait for applicants or resign to the fact that maybe the sit is not that attractive and need to pay for pet care in the end instead of aggressively messaging sitters on THS to try and secure an unpaid situation.
I do honestly think with some HO’s (not all) it is a deliberate choice to not disclose things like cameras, pet meds, limited hours the pet can be left alone, planned construction on part of the home, random visitations from xyz while a sitter is staying there…all in an attempt to manipulate the situation in their favor. Because there are various imbalances that put an HO in a better position and thus get away with behaving badly, it is really important for anyone who doesn’t have those intentions to be as clear, transparent, and communicative as possible. It weeds out the bad ones in my opinion.
So they actually told you they break Airbnb policies too!!!
Wow.
@Gailanne Exactly! As if this was supposed to make it ‘okay’ to have that internal camera. This just made the HO look more shady because they admitted to using it while having an AirBnb.
I’m curious as to what exact is mutually beneficial about a HO knowing when their sitters come and go whether directly from viewing on their own cams or hearing about it from neighbourhood gossip?
Hi,
As a HO that did see my hs yelling and pulling on my dogs neck thru the ring camera while walking them in 102 temperatures I definitely wouldn’t want someone here that was nervous about outside cameras. Very suspicious and makes me wonder what they would be doing. I think cameras should be allowed in our dogs areas so we can see them whenever we want.
I have a doorbell camera and it’s disclosed both in my listing and in my Welcome Guide. Recently, on a 15 day journey I had a TH sitter in my home who was going to working from home all day.
I was concerned that my little dog, who is used to walking 3-5 miles per day, wasn’t going to get enough exercise. My sitter said she would work it out and since I had just had a sitter cancel, I decided to give her a try, even with her busy daytime schedule.
I started noticing “pings” from my doorbell camera at 7am, noon, and 5pm. I didn’t even open them up realizing that that was how she worked it out—took 3 shorter walks per day. I had kiddingly told her that Shula would let her know when she needed some exercise and to just think of her as her “Lifestyle Coach”. At the end of the sit she commented on how well it worked out for both of them to get up and get outside a few times per day. She didn’t feel the door camera was intrusive. Up front communication is key. If it would have been an issue for her I would have turned the doorbell notification off, but not being very tech savvy, it was just easier to leave it on and it didn’t matter to her.
We’re on a sit now where the external cameras weren’t disclosed, neither in the listing nor in the welcome guide. Then again, quite a few things weren’t disclosed.
I feel there should be mandatory disclosure, possibly via a simple tickbox system.
It is mandatory to disclose this - have you discussed with owner -
Do you think it’s deliberate non disclosure or not reading the T&Cs thoroughly?
A tick box to confirm that hosts do not have internal cameras and will disclose external ones - would be a good idea. To be effective, this. would need to be ticked each time new dates were listed as things change from when original listing was created .
Is CCTV in the amenities list ? Sometimes that is the only place it’s mentioned ( so technically if it’s there - it has been disclosed )
You can deduct stars in your review under the accurate listing category .
No, the external cameras are not noted anywhere, and were only noticed when we arrived. We didn’t ask the question prior to accepting the sit, as assumed they would be included in the listing if applicable. It wouldn’t have been a deal-breaker but we were surprised to see them.
Other important things were also not disclosed. On re-reading previous sitter reviews, only one sitter alluded to these other issues, and dinged stars off 2 categories but still awarded 5 overall.
I think that many sitters are still choosing to overlook important details in their reviews.
This is a real problem as I have been on several sits where there were cameras that were undisclosed, in one case I’d even asked. I now feel slightly paranoid on sits which is a shame. One sit they decided to ‘chat’ to me whenever I went past the door to water the garden as it obviously triggered on their phone. I found this really creepy. Another time HOs said they’d installed a camera for their pet to talk to before I arrived. I said no worries I will unplug when I get there, which I did, but they weren’t happy as I think they expected me to just leave it on. I wish owners wouldn’t put us in this position.
I guess you would find it judgey if you aren’t bothered by being under 24/7 surveillance but some people are. I find it unsettling to say the least. Walking around naked, private phone calls, farting, not sure I want all my human habits watched and that’s nothing to do with being a bad house sitter, just not wanting to be observed all the time.