Who pays -- an ethical dilemma

The situation. (Names changed to protect the innocent and/or guilty)

Jane and Jack take a sit a couple of hours from where they live at Joanne’s house. They have to find a sitter for their pets. Luckily Diane can do it. She’s sat for them before but lives across the country. Shortly after Diane buys her ticket, Joanne contacts Jane and Jack with some bad news. Due to a scheduling error on her part and a work issue, the trip is now a week earlier. (The sit is a month away so no premium for anyone.)

Does Jane just say nope, and look for a sit on the right dates and not even tell Diane this is happening? Worst case just stay anywhere cheap?

Does Jane agree to the new dates if Joanne will cover either DIane’s change ticket for the week, or refund penalty if she can’t do the sit?

Does Jane cover Diane’s cost because it is ultimately her responsibility?

Does Diane cover Diane’s costs and look for another sit in Jane’s area on the original dates or stay on a friend’s couch?

What does hivemind say?

If they’re with THS, it’s no-ones responsibility to pay. Diane needs to figure out what she wants to do, but a quick glance to see what sits are available in the area first may help her decide what her next move is.

My head hurts

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Why would it even be Joanne’s responsibility? She may not even know about Diane.

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J&J are now responsible to Diane to only cancel in an emergency, so I’d do anything available to try to not cancel that sit.

If I were Jack and Jane, I’d tell Joanne the new dates don’t work and try to find another sit that matches the dates. Might inform Diane what was happening, but would try to only cancel if there were no other sit options available.

ETA - fixed a word

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Since Covid, I believe that airlines have created processes that make it much easier to change a ticket without big fees.

We mostly use Alaska and Delta Airlines, and it is pretty easy to change a ticket.

Given this scenario, I think the EASIEST thing might be:

  1. Joanne needs to find a new sitter.
  2. Jack and Jill need to find a new sit (lots of sits available in summer).
  3. Diane carries on with her original plan.

The Domino effect of changing dates and cancellations…

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J & J revert to their back up plan for cancelled sits - ( another sit / hotel or what ever other option they have planned in the event the sit gets cancelled )

Sits can get cancelled or curtailed for a variety of reasons - it’s happened twice that hosts curtailed their trips for extraordinary circumstances- once for serious illness, another because of a serious injury sustained on the trip .

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My brain hurts, but I’d say Jack and Jane find a different sit and/or plan for the original dates, and Diane never needs to know.

That solves that scenario.

Now if Jack and Jane still want do sit for Joanne on the new dates, then they can get a sitter for their pets the new dates too. Diane can apply just like anyone else.

Mixing the scenarios confuses things; taking them one at a time invites clarity.

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Everybody meets down at the pub, has a nice meal and a few pints and sorts it out.

Or, if it’s a real scenario

No one is liable for anything. If the middle party wants to do the new dates go ahead, tell the last party the story and let them decide what they want to do.

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@Marion, THS Sit Cancellation Insurance is not applicable as it only covers cancellations within 14 days of start date of housesit. To our knowledge, no THS policy obligates either party. Whether a “scheduling error on her part and work issue” qualifies an emergency seems questionable but this seems frankly moot. Assuming here that Jane and Jack travel arrangements are non-cancellable, non-changeable or otherwise have issues with changes. So it’s a question of demand-supply, reasonableness and perhaps financial value/schedule impact of changes. Likely best course of action is open, honest communication.

Jane and Jack should advise Jane of financial impact and any other impact of sit cancellation … otherwise Jane does not know and may presume zero.

Does Joanne want Jane to complete the revised dates?
Is Joanne confident on securing alternative housesitters?
… if Joanne is motivated, they may well offer to fully or partly compensate Jane/Jack for changes?

Do Jane/Jack really want to visit Joanne property/area?
Would Jane/Jack visit Joanne area even if sit cancelled?
… if Jack/Jill are motivated then they need to simply take a deep breath, accept stuff happens, pay change fees, and move forwards

To our knowledge, and irrespective of cause, there is no credible basis under THS rules under which Joanne is obligated to compensate Jack/Jill for cancellation fees if housesit is cancelled. That’s purpose of Sit Cancellation Insurance … but this is a great example of how THS could enhance its Sit Cancellation Insurance - in this case from 14 days to 31 days - a higher $value and removal of geographic restrictions would also be value-add.

This is true, and certainly Joanne is under no obligation to pay a stranger’s fee. But Jane and Jack have the option to not take her new dates. Their willingness to change their schedules and change their sit is dependent on someone doing right by Diane.

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I’m not talking about THS rules. Under THS rules, Diane could dispute her cancellation and say it wasn’t an “extraordinaory reason” since they Jack and Jill weren’t under any obligation to take Joanne’s new dates. And THS would likely do nothing. And Joanne could have cancelled her dates and put up new dates and not even offered them to Jack and Jill and said “trip date change = extraordinary reason.”

I am not talking about “obligated” to do. I’m talking about what are right choices.

Here are a couple more details: Jack and Jane were driving to Joanne’s and the sit didn’t involve a lot of expense for them especially as they were using a trusted housesitter to sit their own pet. They wanted the sit because they like the area a lot but they could live without the sit. They could also find other sits elsewhere.

Diane lives across the country and wanted to go the magical extemely difficult to find a sit in Utopia where Airbnbn is illegal and hotels are digusting or expensive and noboby has a “guest room.” She found a bargain airfare and all was set. She trusted Jane not to mess her up because she had sat for Jane before. (Also no dogs!)

So in my opinion. Jane “owed” Diane the sit that they both committed to without a date change or a surprise extra fee. Jane’s choice was to either pay the $250 herself, ask Diane to pay it, or take a different sit than Joanne’s that would include the original dates.

Also my opinion: Joanne messed up. She knows she messed up or maybe her spouse messed up. One of those things. She’s paying for it in a non-refundable reservation and having to make a new plan. Her mistake rippled because it meant that Jack and Jill had to look at their schedules and decide what they wanted or could do, and it could have caused Diane to pay more if the Jack and Jill decided to sit for her.

How it ended: Jane told Diane what was happening and that the choice was hers: Jane would honor the sit dates Diane committed to and find a new sit, turning down Joanne’s date OR if Diane wanted to come a week earlier, Jane would talk to Joanne about compensating Diane for the change. Diane was fine either way she could change to a week earlier if compensated or keep the orignal dates. Jane went back to talk to Joanne who admitted that Diane shouldn’t have to eat the fee for Joanne’s mistake and Jane and Jack shouldn’te either, and that she wanted Jane to sit for her.

So you could view it as market and everyone acting in their own best interest, but I think it was great that everyone came to an agreement that everyone thought was fair.

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Wow! That is a nice and logical conclusion.

It is amazing that 2 sitters were flexible enough to change their dates! Not everyone has that much latitude in their life.

Both sitters are occassional sitters. Both work remotely. The sit was still a month away so there was some time for adjustments. I get for a lot of full time nomads the scenario is impossible including the combined sitter status.

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You lost me half way through. I thought you might ask at the end what colour Diane’s night table has. :thinking:

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One thing I would say about the possibility of cancellation in general is that it is the sitter’s choice whether to buy refundable or non-refundable airfare. If it is their preference to buy the cheapest tickets available, or that is the only way to afford the trip, and something happens where they are no longer taking said trip, they have to accept the risk.

And this personal responsibility is not lessened in instances where hosts had flimsy reasons for cancelling–it sucks of course but trips can get cancelled for countless reasons and this is just a risk that is ever present.

While it is certainly a nice gesture for a host to offer to reimburse costs, it isn’t the ‘right’ thing to do, nor is not offering any compensation the ‘wrong’ thing.

And I say this as a sitter who never purchases refundable tickets. I have yet to have a sit to which I was flying to get cancelled so I can’t speak to whether hosts offering some kind of compensation for that is more or less likely to happen. I imagine it is probably less likely and I accept that.

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Glad it worked out, Jane! :wink:

I agree that people have to accept the risk when choosing their tickets. But the price differences can be high and many “non-refundable” tickets still have options with fees so it may still be the best choice and there are very few “no fee” refundable tickets. So it’s not like choosing the super-saver is bad choice. And I absolutely agree that if a sit is cancelled for an extraodinary reason the homeowner isn’t under any obligation.

But if someone is making decisions, those decisions should consider the impact on others. I didn’t use the word “wrong” anywhere but I did use “right” in terms of Jane’s choices. Jane was the one with the dilema. Not considering the impact on Diane would have been wrong and not being transparent and clear with Joanne would have been less than ideal.

If homeowners were obliged to pay sitter transport costs in the event of cancellation, there would be no homeowners on the site. But often when homeowners ask for date changes, sitters do stand up for themselves and ask for changes. There are very few flights that don’t offer some fees. I realize it’s more convulated in this case. I also think when there are extra obligations, inonveniences, and costs, and they don’t get discusssed “feelings” of resentment may linger on both sides. It would have been easy for Jack and Jill to walk away from the new dates and not even bring it up. They could have also checked with Diane and just ate the fee themselves if they felt she shouldn’t have to, but they probably would have resented Joanne on some level and thought of her as “high maintence” to say the least. Presenting her with the choice, enabled Joanne to make clear that she was accepting responsibility for the circumstances and treating them as equals.

Also in your case, if the homeowner was cancelling with a date change – a week earlier on both ends, you could also decide not to take the sit and just look for a new sit. The willingness to pay the change fee (not the entire fare) is a gesture that shows the homeowner is also thinking about the sitter as a person and about the fairness of the exchange.

Ultimately, each set of hosts and sitters will decide individually what they’re willing to do, and it won’t matter whether outsiders think it’s ethical or not. We’d ideally like to think people would do the “right” thing, but that’s subjective (and in some cases, would be wishful thinking).

My POV is to control what you can individually and not expect that others will necessarily do what you or I think is the right thing — then if they do, you’d be pleasantly surprised, rather your potentially being hugely let down or left in a jam otherwise.

And screening people carefully helps, whether as a host or sitter. Like I had two sets of hosts have serious emergency situations that led to them cutting short our sits. In both cases, they offered (unasked) to cover my hotel costs for the shorted days.

In another case, a host (months after we’d agreed on a sit) said their grown son had moved back home unexpectedly and would overlap part of my sit. I replied that we could cancel or I could do the sit solo, as planned. The host decided to cancel. Then she volunteered to help cover changes to my travel arrangements.

When I screen hosts, I always ask myself whether they’d be good partners if things went sideways. If I don’t think so, there’s no chance I’ll take the sit if offered, no matter how good the sit otherwise.

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And just to say, I probably shouldn’t have used “right” choices as that term only applies to Jane. I don’t think it would have been “right” for Jane to cancel the sit with Diane and leave her in the lurch in order to take Jane’s new dates. Nor would it have been in any way “wrong” for Joanne to have said, “No worries. I’ll find someone else for my “new dates” and you can find another sit for your dates.”