I have a dilemma. So for our current sit that’s for a month, we asked the owners if they have cameras and they said two outside and two inside. The inside ones were one in the office and one in the living room. They said we could turn off the one in the office but they made it aware they wanted the living room camera on. We saw the living room camera when we met them in person before the sit but never saw the office camera.
When we were deciding whether to confirm or not, we agreed we would do it if they would turn off the internal cameras because of the policy and messaged them the policy as well. They agreed in text to turn off the internal cameras and we agreed to do the sit. When we came over to do the sit they said they unplugged the living room camera and that we didn’t have to worry about the office camera anymore.
After 8 days my husband found a camera in an undisclosed location on the kitchen counter. It looked like an iPad clock but realized there was a camera on top with a green light beside it. My husband realized it was a google monitor for google nest, found all the cameras and saw that the camera on the google monitor was live because he saw him self and it said live camera.
We turned it off, took all the pictures for evidence since it had been live recording us for 8 days, and emailed trusted house sitters support. THS said they would talk to the owners after the sit was over but recommended us to reach out to the owners about it.
We don’t know what the right thing to do is. There’s a low chance this was an accident but it’s possible it was so there’s a part of us saying maybe we should message the owners about it to give them a chance to explain. However there’s another part of us hesitant to reach out to them, because we don’t want retaliation and for them to leave a bad review of us.
Should I reach out to the owners like THS wants me to or should I just wait and not say anything?
It’s against the policy. Grounds for cancelling. Suspect you don’t want to give up a long sit, but it does seem like deliberate since there was discussion and it was hidden. I’m actually appalled that this would happen after you made it clear about inside cameras. There is either no trust or worse than that are there hidden cameras elsewhere, bedroom, bathroom? Yuk.
If it were us, and we wanted to continue with the sit, then I’d wait and say nothing, it’s done now. I’d save it for the review.
If you bring it up with the HO’s, what can they possibly say that will change anything, apart from sorry we forgot about those ones. Does that change anything? Not from your end it doesn’t, it still needs writing in your review of them, but what it may change is their perception of you when writing their review. So, I’d say nothing.
But if you want to leave, they’ve breached the terms, you have every right to go.
Simply switch all the internal cameras off… and enjoy a camera free sit. We had similar in our 1st sit- I switched the camera in the lounge off. The HO asked about it- I sent the THS T&C and left it at that.
Exactly how have these HOs ‘learned their lesson’? They still had internal cameras up and running AFTER the policy was pointed out to them and AFTER they pledged that their cameras were unplugged/absent.
I am tempted to say that the HOs have lied to the sitters. Or are very unaware of their devices’ function but ignorance is not an acceptable excuse.
How many cameras are you referring to and where were they located? You were able to see video feeds from the other cameras on the hub? Or was it just the hub’s camera that showed up live as your description suggests?
If you turned off the hub and the hosts are periodically monitoring the video feed, they already know that you’ve disabled the camera(s).
They should count their lucky stars you are sitting and not me. There is absolutely no way this was unintentional. I would give 24 hours notice and be gone. I once found a live camera in a child’s bedroom that I only entered to clean a cat vomit from an elderly cat. That was unintentional, kid’s room, kid’s monitor. I never touched it and never mentioned it. This is entirely different. You do whatever you think is best. I am sorry this is happening to you.
@Harmony777, we have come across one undisclosed internal video camera and a good handful of recording devices (Google Home, Amazon Alexa, etc). For the latter, we simply disconnect items from power supply during housesit and did not mention to Pet Parent, as probably inadvertent. For the undisclosed internal camera, we discussed at length. No right answer. Possible retribution on review was mentioned. Ultimately it was a short duration housesit so we determined to disconnect from power supply; not report it; but to not return in future to Pet Parent. But as we gain confidence with THS and accumulate reviews then we do feel an increased responsibility to housesitter community, that includes calling out the small minority of Pet Parents that blatantly beach terms of service.
The advice from THS is curious. Was your communication simply to THS MS, or was it expressly framed under the Member Dispute process? We would be curious to learn, from THS Forum community, about THS Dispute outcomes from clear breaches of Cameras & Recording Devices Policy. How firmly does THS enforce this policy?
The HO demonstrated that they are quite willing to disregard the rules despite discussion so I doubt ‘awkward’ feelings will come into play. THS needs to have a member dispute on record.
I seriously think that the only ‘lesson learned’ by the HO is to hide their cameras better.
So we were able to see where all the cameras were in the house based on this monitor with the camera on it. On the monitor we saw the outside cameras which is fine but then we saw the living room camera which was unplugged and then one other camera that was connected and it was the monitor. We suspect that they moved the office camera to the living room/kitchen counter and it’s the monitor that was caught recording us. Since they told us to no longer worry about the office camera and there’s no camera in sight in the office that’s why we suspect that it was intentional.
The advice from THS is curious. Was your communication simply to THS MS, or was it expressly framed under the Member Dispute process? We would be curious to learn, from THS Forum community, about THS Dispute outcomes from clear breaches of Cameras & Recording Devices Policy. How firmly does THS enforce this policy?
How do I know if it was under the member dispute process? I emailed the support email and sent them all the evidence with screenshots photos and everything because they asked for it. Even after reading the link you sent, it looks like THS is following procedure because even on the website you sent says they want the home owner and sitter to work it out if they can. I just don’t agree completely that ths should do that especially in this kind of situation. Ths only said they would bring it up to the owners after the sit and it doesnt seem like a huge deal to ths. I’m not sure what they are going to say or do but I was pretty upset when I saw how calm ths was about it. I’m just not sure if I should take ths advice and message the owners or not. I just feel bad if I leave a review and it was “an accident”. It’s so hard to say it was though because the monitor we have been discussing that was on the kitchen counter, me and my husband are pretty sure it was the office camera and they moved it to the kitchen.
I am appalled that ths gave you advice to continue the sit as this is illegal. It is entirely possible if you disconnect everything and go on with the sit you will get a bad review. It is possible that if you are upfront and say something implying that they must have accidently left them on and you have remedied the situation, they will still give you a bad review. You can’t control what they will do but you can respond to a bad review and any decent human will be appalled.that they lied to you and did this. Personally if this happened to me I would want to see the footage and demand that they tell me in writing they deleted it. I would cancel the sit. I would take my chances on their review.
THS can’t do much. They will talk with the hosts and warn them that a repeat complaint will result in their being removed from the platform.
A bigger consequence for the host could be your review of them disclosing full details about the cameras. By full details, I mean a well written review that addresses and preempts all likely questions that future readers might wonder about. For example, why it took 8 days before you identified the hub and cameras considering that none of them qualify as inconspicuous. I’d also try poking around the Nest Hub to verify that it is connected to the Internet.
You have plenty of time to write up a straightforward review without rancor. At the end of the sit, you’ll have 2 weeks to post that review. I would wait to post the review until the host has published theirs or the end of the 2 weeks is approaching. Then, I’d be prepared to respond to a bad review from the host using your one opportunity to respond. Take your time; there’s no 2 week time limit on a response to a review.
Considering that your review could stir up a lot of drama, I’d go ahead and contact the hosts now to get their side of the story and give you plenty of time to process that story. You may or may not buy what they’re selling which, in turn, could affect your review. Hopefully, they have a story good enough to calm the waters. I doubt it but, in their favor, they did reveal the existence of the 2 indoor cameras before the sit and they did disconnect the camera they said they would (they may not know that the disconnected camera still works until the battery runs down).
The Amazon Echo is not a recording device. At “worse”, it can be used to listen in but only if you ignore the bright swirling light that comes on and stays on AFTER you accept a request to listen.
The same is likely true of the Google Home device.
@OnTheRoadAgain, THS related policy does not define applicable devices. We interpret the policy to include Google Home, Amazon Alexa and equivalent devices on the basis that some such devices include functionality for remote monitoring. There are numerous device models and we have no appetite to spend our time investigating functionality of each model. Unless device required for property operation, we disconnect them from power during housesit and reconnect prior to pet parent return. As THS policy is unclear, in regards device definition, we do not make a big deal or mention in review.
" What we don’t allow Any active devices monitoring the interior of a property during a sit."
@Harmony777, we do not know rigor of THS enforcement of this policy. We do not recall reading about related enforcement on THS Forum so suspect that THS related enforcement may be light touch.
From your perspective, there appears three decisions - raise THS Dispute (clearly defined process); discuss with Pet Parent; state facts in review. There is no right answer here - subjective based on your perception of Pet Parent actions. The middle ground path noted by @OnTheRoadAgain - of politely highlighting internal camera to Pet Parent seems good action and would clarity facts. Thereafter can consider any subsequent actions. Something like “We spotted [device] and perceive that it has [video/audio] recording function that appears contrary to THS Camera & Recording Device Policy. We have disconnected device from power supply during remainder of housesit. Please advise us if the device is integral to property operations or if you have other concerns.”
Ya that makes sense. The only thing is the cameras they disclosed were one in the living room and then one in the office. The undisclosed one was the one of the kitchen counter. They said they unplugged the living room one and then said not to worry about the one in the office. The office camera is no where to be seen and I think they moved the google monitor that was the office camera to the kitchen counter top which is now considered the undisclosed camera.